NY's Efforts to Stand Up to Gerrymandering

Earlier tonight, Governor Kathy Hochul was a guest on MSNBC’s “The Weeknight” with Michael Steele, Alicia Menendez and Elise Jordan. The Governor discussed New York’s efforts to stand up to Republicans’ gerrymandering power grab.

AUDIO: The Governor’s interview is available in audio form here.

A rush transcript of the Governor’s interview is available below:

Michael Steele, MSNBC:  New York Governor Kathy Hochul, who hosted Texas Democrats in Albany this week writes in the Houston Chronicle, “What Texas Republicans are doing under Trump's direction is nothing short of a legal insurrection on our Capitol, but using a legal system doesn't make it legitimate. It's a hijacking of democracy and it must be stopped.”

Governor Kathy Hochul of New York joins us now.

Alicia Menendez, MSNBC: So Governor, just to underscore something Michael said there, there is no federal crime that all of a sudden these agents are getting involved in. Let's say, though, it puts you on a collision course with the FBI — what do you do then?

Governor Hochul: First of all, I have a lot of respect for the FBI, but I guarantee there are far more important pursuits that they should be engaging in, like human trafficking, breaking up drug cartels, stopping terrorist attacks here in New York City.

So I think this is an abuse of the power of the FBI to direct them to go after duly elected officials in the United States of America. If we've fallen that far, that makes our fight even more important — that all people stand up and say, “We're not going to let you take away our democracy, and you're not going to hunt down our elected officials.”

Elise Jordan, MSNBC: So Governor, now you've waded into a national gerrymandering fight — a partisan political battle at a pitched fever level. What do you see when it comes to New York? You can't actually do anything to redistrict until 2028, so is your role in this more symbolic and fighting with Democrats since nothing can really come of it for several years unless something happens in the State House.

Governor Hochul: Well, right. I mean to not engage in this fight — if we don't fight for our democracy, we're doomed to lose it; that's how high the stakes are right now. And New York State, our normal redistricting, the next election would occur in 2032. I'm going to do whatever I can to literally change the Constitution of New York State to allow us to have an election with the lines that we draw.

If this is how they're going to play the game, we're going to fight fire with fire. I didn't want to take on this fight. I've always followed the rules. Democrats always follow the rules, but when they're willing to do this to subvert our democracy, shame on us if we don't stand up. So, I will get it done in 2028, if necessary, if they continue down this path.

And, of course, they can stop. They want to stop this game, they can stop right now and we'll stand down as well. But until then, we're not going to be on the sidelines. So 2026, I'll do what I did last year. I worked with Hakeem Jeffries and we won five out of seven battleground seats in Congress for Hakeem Jeffries.

We got him that close to becoming Speaker. How important this is now more than ever to see what Donald Trump is doing to this country? And you know why they undertook this whole exercise? I'm convinced because they saw the polling for next year and they’re going to be obliterated next year because of all the Trump policies that are hurting New Yorkers in Republican districts as well.

So, they saw this, they said they're in a panic. “What can we do? Well, you know what? Let's change the rules in the middle of the game and see if anybody tries to stop us.” Well, places like California, New York, Illinois — we're not sitting on the side. We're going to be involved in this fight to the bitter end.

Michael Steele, MSNBC: Governor, I have to admit, before reading your op-ed, you could color me skeptical on the ability of Democrats to do anything here because — as you rightly noted — typically there's this tendency more to ring hands and talk about it instead of actually engaging a little bit in the hand-to-hand combat, which is why I like what you wrote.

And I like what you just said because Elise sort of really set up and anticipated the reality here, which is — the independent redistricting commission is codified in the Constitution. So you are sort of boxed in in that regard, but it sounds as if you have already begun thinking through, strategically, a way in which you can keep New York in that game, not get sidelined because of some of the legal and constitutional obstructions there, but figure out workarounds. That's one point, and it's an important one.

How then do you also set New York up as an example, along with California, for other states — Pennsylvania, Illinois, et cetera — where Democratic governors can begin to look at their maps and go, “You know what? Republicans at the end of the day want to try to get 15, 20 extra seats this way? Let's try to get 30 or 40.”

Governor Hochul: Well, Michael, just on the first premise of your question — I've never been a hand ringer on the sidelines. I'm a street fighter from Buffalo, and my blood is boiling over this, and so are the other governors, the other Democratic governors.

We've talked about this and history will judge us on how we respond in this moment, because if we allow the Republicans to get away with what they're attempting to do — this legal insurrection of our U.S. Capitol — then we'll have a generation of redistricted, gerrymandered seats that are skewed against Democrats. And when will we ever get the balance of power, at least in Washington?

I served in Congress when the Republicans were in the majority in the House of Representatives. I lost that seat in the most Republican district in New York. I won that seat at first, I lost it with redistricting, but guess what? I only lost by one and a half points, but I refused to repeal the Affordable Care Act.

So, I know Republican districts very well, and they will stand up and fight back. And right now, Republicans and Republican districts are sick and tired of what's happening to them. Talk to the farmers in Elise Stefanik’s district in the North Country. Talk to people in Mike Lawler's district in the Hudson Valley. People are going to be losing health care, child care.

Talk to a mom or dad anywhere in America. “How are you doing getting ready to buy back-to-school clothes, and backpacks and sneakers, when the sneakers you could have bought for $42 have gone up to $72?” That's just in three months. That's what tariffs are doing, and it's starting already. They're going to be wiped out. They know they're going to be wiped out in the elections next year. Democrats will have a generational shift in our favor, but if they're going to break the rules — and I'm not going to follow the meter anymore.

I'm sorry to say that, that actually hurts to say that, but I'm not going to go into a fight with my hands tied behind my back — that never works well.

Alicia Menendez, MSNBC: Let's talk about upcoming elections and about generational shift. I'm sure you saw there was some new reporting in the New York Times about President Trump weighing the possibility of getting involved in the New York City mayoral. He has — according to this reporting — had a conversation with Cuomo. Does any of that change your thinking about endorsing in this race?

Governor Hochul: The President should keep his hands off the New York City elections. I don't know whether conversations happened or not, people are saying different things, but you have a big country to run, Mr. President. Why don't you start thinking about the people all across America? We'll handle our own elections.

My job as Governor is to work with whomever the voters of New York want me to work with, and last I checked, Donald Trump doesn't vote in New York City anymore. He checked out and went to Florida.

Elise Jordan, MSNBC: But if Donald Trump nationalizes the mayoral election, won't it be a little bit like you stepping into this national fight over gerrymandering? Are you going to be forced to endorse, and to endorse Zohran Mamdani?

Governor Hochul: No, no, no. Nothing pressures me to do what I don't want to do. I'll do what I want to do when I'm ready. I have to have more conversations. There are some serious differences and major areas of agreement, so.

It is August, this election is in November, and right now, I'm fighting a battle for the ages and I'm not going to take my eye off that fight.

Michael Steele, MSNBC: I think that's an important point, Governor, to both Elise’s and Alicia's point about the politics of this race because everyone has been focused on Mandani, and Cuomo now making the moves that he's making and how that all plays out. I think, for you, and I just want to get your thoughts on this very quickly, your focus has got to be on the bigger issue, which is how you can better position your state — not just for this upcoming mayoral cycle, but in the opportunities that lie ahead — to hold more seats in Congress, and have a bigger play or be a bigger influence on a national conversation just as the one you were leveling up regarding redistricting.

Alicia Menendez, MSNBC: You couldn't hear Michael, but his question was essentially about the influence of New York and how you make sure that as there is this ongoing fight for democracy, New York is at the forefront.

Governor Hochul: Of course we're at the forefront — this is New York. We encourage all the other states to join our effort. I know my colleagues in California have stepped up, JB Pritzker in Chicago. We're all doing what we can — whether it's assisting those individuals who had to leave their own state to protect democracy.

And I want to tell you one thing about those Texas Democrats: When I hosted them, I took them to the Governor's residence in Albany. You know who used to live in that home? Franklin Roosevelt, Teddy Roosevelt. I wanted those individuals to know that they're on the right side of history here and that we support them.

And these are citizens who've left their homes, leaving their kids behind, leaving their spouses behind — and you know what? Those are the people that we should consider the 2025 candidates for the Profiles in Courage.

Alicia Menendez, MSNBC: New York Governor Kathy Hochul, thank you so much for being with us.